Want a reason to not like Duke? Just read this…
UNC vs Duke
Like so many other Tar Heels I am sure that the most asked question we hear is: “why don’t you like (or hate or can’t stand or whatever else you want to insert here) Duke?”. Some of the answers are: Coach K, or Henderthug err Henderson, or the flopping that most players that call Cameron Indoor Stadium home do so frequently, or the smirks/tudes that so many Blue Devils have, or (one of my favorites) Wojo, or JJ or the Cameron Crazies. For me the answer is different, I don’t like the arch rival because I do one simple thing: read. Yes, I get up in the morning and after checking out what the sites with a touch of carolina blue are saying I then go and check what the teams UNC has a rivalry with are saying (I guess an online version of keeping my friends close and my enemies closer). While I was surfing today I found this little jewel, that I have to link because I am going to quote from it, but I’m definitely not linking because I think they are owed any traffic.
Here is the first passage that I have to say is absurd to say the least:
“It’s hard to argue the Tar Heels aren’t ahead of the Blue Devils right now, how much is that by design and how much is it by chance? Has the North Carolina coaching staff made better decisions, or have they lucked out?”
Let me start out by saying that once again the great people from Duke cannot give a compliment without adding a back handed slap to it. The coaching staff have lucked out? Where? How? If there is one thing that even Duke has always said about head coach Roy Williams is that he is a great recruiter, but not a great in game coach. Now, not even that, it’s a wonder how coach Williams keeps the team over .500, let alone having won two national titles in five years. Not even going to talk about the fact that when Roy Williams came back to Chapel Hill it was because of the mess left by the post Dean Smith era. As I said before, if you want to be a hater of the Blue Devils all you have to do is read just a little bit.
Of course you guys read this and you might say I am going overboard, since the writer did give a choice of whether UNC’s staff made the best decisions or if they were just lucky. But this is what he went on to say right after that:
“Exhibit one: Given a choice between a 6-10 athletic center who can handle the ball and is a great passer, rated by some as the best player in his class or a 6-8 less athletic center from the worst class of the decade, which one would most coaches choose? But Tyler Hansbrough was more valuable than Josh McRoberts in both of the years when Josh was in school, and infinitely more valuable after Josh left.”
All I can say is “welcome ABC’ers and haters”. First off let me clear one thing up, whoever wrote this made a bit of a slip, since their Josh McRoberts by their own words would have been the best player of the worst class of the decade, so how good could he truly be? Having seen him play two years in Durham and now struggling in the NBA, the answer is that he wasn’t all that the hype might have made him out to be. On the other hand, Hansbrough did have a great career, and I guess the fact that the young man from Poplar Bluff was being pursued by top notch schools (such as Kansas and Kentucky) doesn’t matter. Or that he was ranked 10th in the rankings by Rivals.com and fourth in the power forward rankings. Josh McRoberts, in those same rankings, was second and first. So, those words that make Hansbrough sound so bad, sorry, if you do some “reading” you will find out the truth! And for the record, both McRoberts and Hansbrough were 5 star recruits.
Having said all of this, let’s remember something very clearly here, Tyler Hansbrough believed (as did coach Williams) that he was coming to Chapel Hill to come off the bench and learn from the likes of Sean May and (maybe) Marvin Williams. He got on the job training and did well at it. As far as the comment about “which one would most coaches choose?”, yet again another uncalled for shot. We all know that college coaching staffs spend endless hours dissecting players before offering Letters of Intent. The fact that Hansbrough could run the floor as well as any big man in college was probably one of the biggest reasons why HC Williams wanted him at Chapel Hill. The results of that are pretty evident, aren’t they?
On the other hand, there is a piece I agree with:
The program targets a smaller number of players overall and attempts to “build a relationship” with them. This furthers the idea of the Duke “family” which has roots embedded in a more personalized recruiting approach. Of course, the downside is that should a player not decide to cast his lot with Duke, the program can be left scrambling or just “out of luck” as in ’81.
Here is the difference in the two programs. Coach Williams seems to always have a backup plan, while Coach K seems to play “all in” (aka either him or nothing/very little). When UNC was overlooked by Delvon Roe and Samardo Samuels the coaching staff quickly moved and brought Tyler Zeller and Ed Davis to Chapel Hill, which by all accounts is definitely not lowering the talent pool. That is not the case for the team just eight miles away. Brandan Wright, who became a Tar Heel, said no to Duke and there was not much of a backup plan. The same could be said about Patrick Patterson (Kentucky) or Greg Monroe (G’Town). Maybe the reality is that both UNC and Duke give the family feeling to their recruits, but Coach K and his staff stop when they believe they have enough, while Coach Williams and his assistant do not stop until they are certain that UNC is all set for the following year.
It’s called commitment, something that I feel that coach Williams has devoted 100% to his alma mater while Coach K has devoted himself to a lot of things that have nothing to do with Duke. The Olympic team, which it seems that the Duke coach wants to stay on, the commercials (yes HC Williams has done some as well, but not nearly as many), the book, and so on and so forth. The day, even at a school like Duke, is only 24 hours long and you cannot do so many things without something falling on the floor because of it. In this case, from what I see and believe, Coach K’s side projects are hurting his main job and, like it or not, someone soon enough will say something. If he does take on the Olympic team once again that is going to be three more years devoted to that, and I just think that would hurt the team enough that people will begin to get sick of it.
This whole article smells of someone from Duke trying to say “Carolina is on top now, but you wait and see Duke will get back there again”. Here is my thought on that, I doubt very much that Duke is going to win a national title in the years to come, and with coach Krzyzewski doing all that he is doing it might take a new head coach in order for the Blue Devils to lift up another national title. It’s a given that he will surpass his mentor, Bobby Knight, as the all time winningest coach, but that might be the last achievement that coach K will receive, since as things are going right now, I just do not see Duke being able to turn it around, especially without their head coach being there 24/7.
I think the heydays for Duke also came when UNC was at their worst (between the end of Dean Smith’s tenure and the beginning of Williams’), and now with the Tar Heels back at full force Duke is not getting the best that is out there, and Carolina is one of the reasons that is happening. I might be totally wrong about my feelings, especially since I know myself to be biased, but to write what this person did in an attempt to both make Duke look better and in the meantime try to convince anyone that UNC has gotten lucky in doing what they did is both sad and funny at the same time. But the truth of the matter is pretty simple, the Tar Heels have moved up while the Blue Devils have slid down.
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10 Responses to Want a reason to not like Duke? Just read this…
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I’m all for opportunities that favorably compare Carolina to Duke because I happen to have a thorough disdain for Coach K and his sycophants in Durham. But, as wonderful as your sentiments are, I have to offer another perspective: Duke is experiencing a downturn right now but it is proably temporary. Just as some people were saying the game might’ve passed Dean Smith by in the late ’80s when the Heels had a Final Four drought from ’82 through ’90 (despite some fantastic talent and a lot of wins in the regular season) so too is the case with Duke, as much as I wish and hope that indeed Coach K never returns to NCAA greatness. If you look at their ’10 roster and their ability to consistently be among the schools considered by top recruits, they simply can’t be counted out yet (and I admit the fear of jinx if we proclaim “Duke is Dead” too soon).
Now, having given Duke some benefit of the doubt, my reasons for the relative decline of the Duke program:
1) Bad decisions for assistant coaches. Look at the bench in Durham versus Chapel Hill. If you were a big man, do you want Wojo or Chris Collins teaching you post moves? There are statesman on the bench who exude confidence in Chapel Hill and emotionally stunted sycophants that exude panic on the bench in Durham. Johnny Dawkins has all the charm of a pair of water-logged shoes.
2) Duke doesn’t have a great track record with developing players and putting them in great position for the next level. Duke has seen Josh McRoberts (correctly identified in the above article as the highest rated PF – above Hansbrough – in the ’05 class) unadvisedly bolt the program for the NBA. The same thing with Shavlik Randolph, another top player. Each of these and other early-NBA entrants and transfers sent signals there is discord within the Duke program. The defections of McRoberts and Randolph both seemed more about getting out of Duke than about pursuing NBA riches from a position of advantage (neither player was considered truly ready for the NBA at the time and each made their announcement to the surprise of observers).
3) Coach K is not loyal to his players – and its showing up now in his inability to recruit great players. This is debatable, of course, but I’ve always had the feeling Coach K wants to use loyalty as a PR tool, not as the guiding philosophy of his program. There are many examples over the years of highly touted underclassmen (remember Ricky Price?) who seem to lose support of their coach as they become juniors and seniors. The latest example is the career of Greg Paulus. Being relegated to the bench and a redundant after-thought with damaged confidence as a senior simply would’ve NEVER happened at Carolina. Smith, Guthridge, Doherty and Williams would’ve never allowed such a talented player and team leader to be treated thusly as a senior. The Carolina Way includes the old Native American attage “use all the parts of the buffalo.” No player is a wasted resource at Carolina but the road out of Durham is littered with the waste of talented underclassman who found a cold shoulder and a torpedoed career from Coach K the moment it suited him.
4) Coach K does not develop his bench. Even when they have 8 or 9 McDonald’s AA’s, Duke usually has a 6-7 player rotation and this is one reason some commentators have provided for their stumbles at the end of the season compared with the start and middle. I’m not sure how much I buy this argument since tired legs are an over-rated reason for Duke stumbles of late, but I think the combination of opponents seeing game tape of Duke and learning more how to beat them along with Coach K’s failure to get his team peaking late in the season with a deep bench of confident players is the story here.
No matter what the reason, what is most clear is few things in life can give we Carolina fans as much pleasure as the period we enjoy now: the afterglow of another Carolina NCAA Championship and the knowledge that sour grapes are becoming a steady diet in the basketball program at Duke.
Now, if we could just see Dick Vitale retire we’d really be enjoying a sea change in the buzz surrounding Duke basketball.
Great, great post. All points spot on!
I re read it four or five time just to absorb all the info you put into it!
AEM
TYLER IS THE BEST THING TO HAPPEN TO UNC AND COACH WILLIAMS. HE WAS A BEAST ON THE BOARDS AND A SUPERSTAR FOR THAT PROGRAM AND HE WILL BE A SUPERSTAR IN THE NBA. WHERE WILL KYLE SINGLER BE NEXT YEAR? NOWHERE THAT’S WHERE. TYLER IS ONE IN A MILLION AND FOR ALL YOU HATERS OF PSYCHO T, HE WILL PROVE EVERYONE WRONG.
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Lucked out? Was Duke’s run in the late 90s/early 00s luck, too? All teams have their ups and downs. Duke was up while UNC was going through its coaching transitions. Now UNC is up while Duke is rebuilding. State is on the way up after a spell in the second division. It’s just the nature of sports. If we’re lucky, it’s being spoiled by having such a good team like UNC.
Debbie: You are going to be hard pressed to see me saying anything bad about Tyler. I loved his passion, work ethic and the way he portrayed himself as a Tar Heel. I quoted what the piece said and tried to make sense of it, but unfortunately there is no sense to it.
HeelYes: Again, I keep re reading your points and you did a heck of a job breaking it all down!
UNCFan: I have no doubt that all programs go up and down, my only thoughts was that the piece tried to make Duke look good in a way that right now they can not. If Coach K takes on the USA Team I dont see them improving at all.
AEM
The Duke article mentioned lists a surprising number of transfered players from the Duke program. It is interesting to see the author consider such trends as incidental, even if consequential. The author fails to acknowledge or question WHY so many players have left Duke. I hope others agree my post above provides a few answers.
Among other things I was also struck by the manner in which he argued Carolina’s 2005 team might’ve been more lucky than good in winning the title. Somehow, a balanced perspective might elude him. That ’05 team had a tough road to the Final Four and then had to beat that season’s overwhelming #1 ranked Illini less than a 100 miles from their campus. A little luck is always needed to win the big dance because it is so darn tough to win it, but the ’05 team deserved more respect, even from someone so partial.
Regarding Duke’s decline, it was curious that the author decided to blame Duke’s lack of recent NCAA success on the players recruited or not recruited to the program. Doesn’t it come down to talent AND coaching? I’m reminded of the saying: “Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.”
All too often Coach K has blamed his own players for a loss rather than give full credit to the opponent and accept responsibility himself. This is one of the ways his particular meglomania reveals itself during press conferences. It shouldn’t be much of a surprise then that the people worshipping at his basketball altar have adopted a similar philosophy of blaming the players for losses and crediting the coaches for the wins. That’s just coolaid they don’t serve at Carolina – if we ever had a coach who did, we’d lose something very special.
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henderson is overrated and ellington is underrated
UNC is the best all time but I don’t know if the starters for next season can live up to that reputation.